The Business of Life with Dr King
Dr Ariel Rosita King brings on a variety of International guests from various countries, cultures, organisations, and businesses to talk about turning
problem into possibilities! Let's turn our challenges in opportunities together!
The Business of Life with Dr King
Fatherhood, Work Balance, and the True Value of Time with Your Children with Michael Kainatsky (USA)
What happens when a successful strategy consultant becomes a full-time father during a global pandemic? Our guest, Michael Kainatsky shares his remarkable journey balancing remote work and raising his son, challenging conventional wisdom about parenting and career priorities along the way.
Born in Russia and immigrating to America at age seven, Michael Kainatsky brings a unique perspective to fatherhood shaped by his diverse career in sales leadership, talent acquisition, and strategy consulting. When his son was born in May 2020, he made the life-changing decision to become the primary caregiver while his physician wife continued her essential work with children. This choice led to profound revelations about the true value of parenthood.
"Being a full-time dad is not the hardest job in the world—it's the most important," he declares after changing over 7,000 diapers and witnessing every milestone in his son's development. This perspective shift frames our fascinating discussion about work-life balance in the remote era, where the boundaries between professional and personal responsibilities constantly blur.
The conversation takes a compelling turn when examining parental leave policies worldwide. While Scandinavian countries offer extensive options for both mothers and fathers, America's approach creates challenging dynamics for families and employers alike. Our guest makes a persuasive case for government-subsidized programs that would benefit families, businesses, and society as a whole.
Perhaps most poignant is his observation that 90% of all available time with our children occurs before they turn 18. "Kids don't care about the things they have if they're healthy and not hungry. The second most valuable thing to them is time with you." This reality check invites listeners to reconsider how they allocate their most precious resource—time—in pursuit of truly meaningful success.
Music, lyrics, guitar and singing by Dr Ariel Rosita King
Teach me to live one day at a time
with courage love and a sense of pride.
Giving me the ability to love and accept myself
so I can go and give it to someone else.
Teach me to live one day at a time.....
The Business of Life
Dr Ariella (Ariel) Rosita King
Original Song, "Teach Me to Live one Day At A Time"
written, guitar and vocals by Dr. Ariel Rosita King
Dr King Solutions (USA Office)
1629 K St, NW #300,
Washington, DC 20006, USA,
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Can you tell us more about yourself and what you do, and just tell us more about you?
Michael Kainatsky :I am a Russian-born immigrant. I came here when I was almost seven with my family. When I tell people I immigrated here, they always ask me oh, how old were you? And I say seven. They go did you come here by yourself? That's actually a common question and I'm saying what kind of parents do you think I have that I came here at seven by myself. So I've been here for 36 years. I have married to a wonderful wife who's also a doctor, like yourself. My son is four. He's kind of like my, my whole world pride and joy.
Michael Kainatsky :I am a for for my my day part-time job, but I'm not a full-time dad. I am a strategy consultant for sales, go-to-market talent acquisition, retention, and over the last couple of years I've also become kind of a LinkedIn coach, just because I see so many things happening on LinkedIn that I just do not agree with and I want to help people make their lives a lot easier, which I think that unfortunately, these days we're not seeing that. So I've been focusing on those things. My background is about 20 years now. I've had C-level position in sales. I've been a sales leader. I've had my own talent acquisition talent recruiting agency, so I've done some things. I guess I can kind of probably, you know, in the corporate world I can call myself an OG officially. I guess I'm old enough.
Dr Ariel King:I love it. You've done so much. That's really amazing. What do you love most? You said that you're a full-time dad. You love being a dad to your four-year-old. What is that like for you?
Michael Kainatsky :for you. It's, you know it's been. I feel blessed to have not only have the opportunity to have this amazing little four-year-old, but I also kind of feel blessed that I I fell into a stay-at-home dad role. Uh, not because I've ever intended. I was working remotely way before he was born. Uh, way before working remotely was cool. It's actually uncool now. Everybody's sick of it, it seems. But I was just remote for a long time when I left the corporate world and then the pandemic hit. And when the pandemic hit, my wife wasn't going to stop working because she works with kids. She can't stop working. Her job is important. So, no matter what, she was going to continue to do what she was doing. And you know, he was born literally May 2020, right in the heart of the pandemic. And at the time, what I basically was like well, I'm just gonna be the stay at home dad, I'll take on the role, because she couldn't, she had to go to work and she had to do that and she was working really a lot, and so I got this.
Michael Kainatsky :You know, the last four and a half years almost five now I've actually had the like I call it a privilege to just be at home. Change all the diapers, feed him and be the part of every single thing that he's done. I take him with me everywhere. He goes everywhere with my wife and I. You know we've never used babysitters, no daycare, it was just always me and him. And I feel like most parents. You know, I know that.
Michael Kainatsky :You know and I guess I might piss some people off, but you know women generally say being a mom is the hardest job in the world. I want to tell you right now it is not. It is absolutely not. I love it. I would absolutely. Somebody said to me stop working tomorrow and just be a full-time dad. If that was an option, no problem, I would absolutely love it. It is such a joy to be around kids and watch them grow. So I know moms say that, but I've been working full-time and being a full-time dad and I can tell you being a full-time dad is not the hardest job in the world, it is the most important. That's what moms should say. It's the most important job. It is not the most difficult, by any means. It is not the most difficult. So I've loved it. You know I used to have on my profile. I removed it. Since that I've changed over 7,000 diapers. It was always a great conversation.
Dr Ariel King:I saw that on your profile and that's something that I think really pulled me towards your profile. It's like, okay, you're a gentleman, that's you know, basically doing all these wonderful things, but at the same time, being a dad is important to you. And actually on my profile I say you know, I'm a dedicated mom. I love, I love being a mother. I think that's one of the most important. You know titles I have after my name rather than other titles in MLM. So I understand you. It's wonderful.
Michael Kainatsky :It's probably one of the things that people take most for granted and I think we, I think we're just prone to take it for granted and I see this a lot because I'm I advise companies and clients and various people and what I see common is that people are always willing to sacrifice their kids for that greater thing that they're building Right. And and I think that we've probably grown accustomed where the man of the household is in a position where, like, hey, listen, I'm here to, I'm here to do this, I have to provide, I have to go out there, I don't need to be there for the kids, I don't. You know, it's going to be about money, it's about getting them all their education, getting them the sports, getting the clothes, getting the food. I'm out there doing it. And I think that that's been like a generational thing where, like, men are like, yeah, I don't have to be there.
Michael Kainatsky :And I think that what I realized myself now because, honestly, I, my dad, we were immigrant so I was, because I was an immigrant, my parents always working and I realize now that your, your kids, don't really grow up appreciating everything you gave them, but you do remember the time they took away from you because they thought work was more important, and I understand that everybody has the luxury you have to sometimes work, but I think it's important that kids don't care about the things they have If they're healthy and they're not hungry. The second most valuable and important thing to them is time with you. That's the that's really true.
Dr Ariel King:That makes all the difference, doesn't it?
Dr Ariel King:and it also puts it, puts it, puts it in perspective. You know, I think it puts everything that I know, I I mean I do, and perhaps you were seeing some things that you do into perspective of what's really important and what's important to your life. And I'm wondering do you think that being a dad and and I won't need to say a stay-at-home dad, because basically you know, being a dad, along with working full-time, remotely, as you say, do you think that actually changed the way that you actually work or the way that you relate to people, or the way that you see yourself in the workplace?
Michael Kainatsky :So it changes how you work, because you know, I think, work has changed. The thing about the evolution of work in general is that you know why we had the great resignation? Well, that was because the pandemic made people realize what's important to like. Screw this. I'm not doing all this stuff for the company, I want to be on my own terms and whatnot. And that's where companies have to evolve and start expecting people that they need freedom. Right, I, I have turned down I'm not going to say many, but I've turned down quite a few pretty interesting jobs over the years where my time would really be jeopardized. Like I don't have a problem sitting at home and working, and I do it a lot. I probably work more now than I did ever when I was in the office because I'm never turned off. Right, you don't disconnect like this, this thing, right?
Dr Ariel King:here, you don't disconnect right every day.
Michael Kainatsky :This goes anywhere 20 every day. It's always on 24 hours, it's always on right. So the idea of this work-life balance it's a problem, remote, when you're working nine to five that when people talk about work-life balance at a nine to five, I'm always laughing about it and going like you literally have the work-life balance. It's nine to five, that's the job. You don't have to work before or after. It's now that this work-life balance problem comes in, because you don't turn off. You wake up at eight. You may be at the computer till eight.
Michael Kainatsky :Oh crap, I didn't realize, you know. So now it's I need to force myself to go to the gym. Step away, go and your kid comes home. Don't be like this. You know I'm guilty of it. I'm doing this like this.
Michael Kainatsky :And he's like and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, what's up? No, don't do that. This stuff won't end, it'll keep going. Social media, linkedin, all this crap, it just it doesn't stop. But this age, four years old, three, five, this is an age that and it's, and I always catch myself and I'll go, yes, and I try to, and I look at it and go like I have the luxury of seeing him in my periphery, whatever he's doing so. I'm always there interacting and engaging.
Michael Kainatsky :But there's dads that leave at eight and they come home at seven. Their kids are at school, or they drop them off, they come home dinner, they're at bed by eight, and so your interaction during the week with your kid may be one or one and a half hours a day. And this is really, I think, something that parents should think about, because 90% of all the time we have with our kids, we have it before they're 18. That's 90% of all the available time. That's really true, doesn't mean 90 of all the time you may spend. You know. You may say I've ever spent. You know what I was like. I I see my kids 20 total hours a week, like hypothetically. I only see them 20 hours, or maybe it's 10 hours. We'll do the math 10 times 18 years, you're like it's 10 times 52, it's 500 hours a year you spend with your kids.
Dr Ariel King:do you know in in many scandinavian countries, um, men actually can have paternal leave. So there's maternal leave and paternal leave. For example, in sweden you can actually take off two years and you'll lose your job actually stays, you can go back to your job, and at first it was just maternity leave for two years with full pay and your job. You can go back to your job. Somebody else would do your job. And then, of course, men said but wait a minute, there should be some equity, because we also want the privilege of being parents. We don't just want to be parent at night. So then they have paternity leave. So I actually know at least two men from Northern Europe, you know from the Scandinavian countries, that have done that and they have stayed home with their children for the two years.
Michael Kainatsky :So that's, incredible.
Dr Ariel King:Do you think that something? Maybe would you recommend something like that for other men if they could and we're talking about, of course, people from all over the world, so every, every place is different but would you recommend that that fathers stay, if they can, with their children for at least some months or longer, if they can?
Michael Kainatsky :You know, I think that, and I'm not surprised by the way that it's Sweden. It was one of them. We remember how well Sweden did during the pandemic no lockdowns, everybody do whatever you want, least amount of deaths in the world, right, and I'm a proud Volvo driver for the last eight years, so I guess that's why. Yeah, you know, I think that when we talk about the equity in the workplace in general, I really do think that even here, moms get what is it? Three to four months Sometimes.
Dr Ariel King:some companies get six right. You're talking about yeah, you're from America. We interview people from all over the world, so you're talking about in America.
Michael Kainatsky :In America we do three to six months for women. Some companies do paternal. They'll do three to six months paternal, but it's not government. I told them I'm going on maternity leave in the next two weeks and all of a sudden they said hey, we're terminating you because of X, y, z. Now you start thinking to yourself are you really terminating them because it just happens to be coincidental, or are you terminating them because you're like why are we going to pay somebody for six months or two, or three weeks, pardon me, some people don't get six months.
Dr Ariel King:I mean I I've heard of people um getting two weeks or four weeks of paid leave in america, but I'm not sure because of course I don't live in america, but for people that I know and then they take sick leave so they add on, they save up their sick days, and then I've heard of I don't know about men, so it must be worse for men, but women going back to work within two months and still lactating, still wanting to feed the baby, but can't because they have to go back because there is no paid leave.
Michael Kainatsky :Now you can take off, but it's unpaid leave. To me it's a really big issue. I think short-term disability that the government provides, so that let's say we want this to be the case and the companies don't want to pay it, I get it. You know what I get that Companies are like look, I don't want to pay for six months of somebody's salary let's say that's $150,000 person. I don't want to have to pay $75,000 because you just had a kid and there's no productivity. You just happen to be a woman. So now a company is going to be like well, do we? And then we're told to have 50% of our workforce be women. So now we have to make a decision that, well, we do want to have equal amount of women and men, but the men are not getting six months paternity, the women are. So I could see all sides. I'm a realist. I'm not somebody that's scared to say things I agree with you.
Dr Ariel King:I agree with you.
Michael Kainatsky :And I don't have a problem saying things that are politically incorrect, like, oh, how dare you say this about women? They have to go through this, you're right, they do. But if you are in a capitalist economy, capitalist market, where people have to make a decision, well, think about this in all regards. They say you want to have a very diverse workforce. Right, and the diverse workforce is like, yes, but if it's diverse by force, you're going to have a problem. Like, for instance, you don't say okay when you get on a plane this is a very, very good point.
Dr Ariel King:Can I ask you a question about this? I mean, I find this whole conversation so interesting. I've never spoken to anybody like you before. When you're looking at the cost for businesses right of somebody leaving as a result of paternity or paternity or maternity leave, I think that to recruit a new person, the cost to recruit and train is literally more than it costs to actually keep the person and to get some salary. So I'm wondering whether or not we're missing something and not thinking about retaining the person that we've trained and we already have.
Dr Ariel King:They know what they do and you know that maybe economically it does make sense to do that. What do you think?
Michael Kainatsky :So I happen to be. I'm I don't like to call myself an expert, but I have a lot of expertise in talent acquisition because I had my. I was an agency owner. I've placed 350 people, I've hired and, yes, recruiting someone new and training them is very, very costly and expensive. Because a person that you have that's really good and they've been with you for however long and they're going on maternity leave, they have a lot of tribal knowledge, they've learned a lot of things about your business and if you say, well, okay, you know you're going on maternity leave, I guess we're going to replace you for the time being. You're not going to ever replace them in that amount of time that they're gone to get someone that will actually even begin, most likely, unless it's maybe a doctor for a doctor, right, maybe it's a salesperson with a lot of experience, but you're generally not going to get them to productivity within the timeframe of that six months. But there's something else, and this is I hear this a lot because I help talk to a lot of people that are looking for work and they're. For instance, they'll say I've been working for 25 years, they have very senior positions, they've been, no question.
Michael Kainatsky :Then they get laid off because of their age, their salary. You know, these things happen all the time. Ageism is. I mean, I was shocked when I found out that ageism starts at 40. Like when I turned 40, they're like, oh, you're a protected age group now and I said really, yeah, you could sue for age discrimination after 40. I'm like, get the hell out of here. I don't think I could even sue for, you know, age discrimination, not being, you know, over 21. I feel like I'm 18 mentally. They're like you could sue for age discrimination. I'm like that's crazy. I would never sue for age discrimination. But that's what a protected age group is. Now. I had to learn HR guidelines and laws because I had a talent agency, so I had to know these things. When companies would do stupid things, they'd be like can't do that, don't be stupid. But to me, the biggest thing here is if you think about unemployment.
Michael Kainatsky :Unemployment is something you're constantly paying into. If you're an employee forever, so for 20 years you pay, you don't use it. It's kind of like life insurance. You don't want to use. Life insurance it's a good thing to have, you don't want to use it. Unemployment it's a good thing to have, you don't want to use it. But, unlike life insurance, which, unfortunately, the time you're unemployed, and then what is it? Six months and then you're unemployed, that's it. No more unemployment. You're like, wait a minute, I've just been paying into this for 20 years. The average career is let's say it's hypothetically, 40 years. Today, let's say it's 45 years. Well, I'm 20 years in and I've used unemployment in my life. I could say I have used unemployment because I've had a 20-year career. I have maybe used unemployment for a total of a year of my life, I think, if you add it up.
Dr Ariel King:Yeah, that's not much.
Michael Kainatsky :Where is the 19 years that I've been paying, and so does my employers. Where is that money? Well, that money is going to something else which the government which is in debt. It's social security. Well, social security is going to go away, so I'm paying into that. That's going to go away. So what I think we're happening here is we have to start looking at from a perspective of government programs. I think our government should be like listen, we can't expect companies to make this decision, because a capitalist company, which all companies are, they're not not-for-profits they're going to make a decision and say I don't want to have 50% of my workforce women, because that means if I hire women of a certain age, I'm going to basically be concurrently running, where like five to 10 of my workforce maybe more is always on maternity leave, while I'm paying for no productivity. If I was a business owner, I'd say I don't think I want to hire as many women.
Dr Ariel King:But if you're now this is a very good point. This is a very good point.
Michael Kainatsky :But again, this is probably unpopular. I would get probably a lot of people me too's, and people that are feminist and be like you such an asshole. Look at what they go through. I'm like this is the reality, but not humanity. Humanity doesn't think this way. Humanity thinks what will hurt me is right. Most people first think will it hurt me? Then they think of how can they get help. That's why you know, when you think about, when we talk about like a plane crash, they go put the mask on yourself, then help your kids. Not help your kids first. They want you first help yourself. Now a company will say if I don't have a company, it doesn't matter who. I have a maternity leave, so I need to make sure my company is solvent. And if your company is five people or 10 people and half of them are women between the age of 25 and 35, guess what you might be paying a lot of money for no, productivity from those women, and then they have to get their job back.
Dr Ariel King:But then can I ask you a question? I mean, this is a very good point, but here's my question to you how is it that there are countries that seem to be doing well in companies? I have a friend that also was a. He was a electrical engineer, her husband was a chemical engineer. They worked for the same company I won't say the company and she was able to take off and he was able to take off. So what are some countries doing that allow for humanity? And we're talking about maternity, but how about paternity? Shouldn't fathers have the possibility to spend some time with their children, especially within the first five years, which they say is the most important part of a child's life?
Dr Ariel King:And I mean we keep talking about money, but these companies aren't doing badly.
Michael Kainatsky :So maybe it's part of the goal?
Dr Ariel King:I don't know.
Michael Kainatsky :No, no, no, no. This has to do with government. I mean, look, there's some things that I think the government screws things up. Right, if you're talking about socialized medicine, it's going to get screwed up Because why? Well, while everyone has access to medicine, let's be honest. What doctors are going to accept? You see how? Insurance? How? Nobody wants to accept insurance anymore. My wife doesn't accept insurance. Doctors are getting away from it. Why? Because people want to get paid for what they believe they deserve. The moment your government steps in and manages healthcare. Yay, everyone has access, but it's basically like look, here's healthcare, right, can't see it because of this, but here's healthcare, you have a cup. It's like this so you have a, that's great. Now, instead of it being equal access and people pay for what they want in a capitalist economy where doctors the good doctors pay, charge a lot, but they get the results, well, now it's hey, you are a cancer doctor, but instead of five people, you need a thousand and you're not getting paid anymore because it's a government program.
Dr Ariel King:So now that environment makes the difference, doesn't it?
Michael Kainatsky :so it's not just here okay, yeah the environment makes it sweet for right.
Dr Ariel King:It makes a difference for whether or not you can have maternity paternity leave. I have to be honest with you. I'm really very, very interested in paternity leave. I think it's so important for children.
Dr Ariel King:It is important, no matter whether it's a boy or a girl, to have time and energy also to have that, that hands-on care, like you said, that I don't know how many diapers you taste, but that hands-on care from their father, even if it's a, even if it's a small time, because I think that the bonding between the child and and the father, just like the child and the mother, is very important and, of course, when a mother, if a mother is able to carry, rather than adoption or whatever, or their step parents, but if they're able to carry, then a lot of that bonding happens within, I think, that time of gestation.
Dr Ariel King:But I think, with the father it's really, really important, if they choose to, of course, if they choose to be able to have that possibility. Well, my question to you is we have about three or four minutes. My question to you is if you could make it possible for fathers to have a time off, even just a month, with their children. Um, could you please tell mothers and fathers and even companies, why is it important that fathers actually have time with their children, according to you know your thoughts, since you've been there for four years okay, I'm not gonna start going in.
Michael Kainatsky :I'm not a psychologist or a doctor. I'm not gonna tell you, first of all, everyone knows why. Like I'm not gonna start going in. I'm not a psychologist or a doctor. I'm not gonna tell you, first of all, everyone knows why. Like I'm not gonna go in and start giving some diatribe nonsense like, oh, this is why this is important.
Dr Ariel King:Like nobody needs to know just your, no, just your, your opinion from what you've done. That's all your opinion is yeah.
Michael Kainatsky :My opinion from it is that you, you have kids, not because a lot of people have kids and keep having kids two, three, four because they feel like they need to have kids. Having kids is not something that we are required to do to exist. You do not have to have kids. You don't have to go to college. You don't have to become a lawyer or a doctor. You choose these professions, you choose these directions when you choose to have kids.
Michael Kainatsky :Life is short and I think that people are too busy thinking that it's infinite. You have a time, oh, I'll do it. Tomorrow, I'll have another opportunity to do it, and it's just not going to work. The kids get big. They don't care about you. By the time they're 10, they're like God, dad, mom, get away from me. They don't really want to spend time with you.
Michael Kainatsky :So the Nets, by the way. Why does that happen? Because you don't create those strong bonds and spend all of this time with them when they're super young that they're used to being self-sufficient on their own. Babysitter, drop them off, hand them off to someone, and they're like. By the time they get to the age of reason, they're like yeah, I don't need my parents. I'm cool. Yeah, they're around. I know they're around, I love them, but I'm good and I think that that bond, like you said, is not strongly created and the way that we're going to do is going to just like minimum wage goes up. You know what they do. Minimum wage is 20 bucks an hour. I got it. Instead of six people, I'm going to have two and the rest are going to be kiosks. They are going to remove what is required when they can, but if the government says no, all part of the taxes you put in it's going to maternity, your unemployment that you've been paying off for 20 years. That, yeah, we're not going to pay you your full time.
Dr Ariel King:What a great idea.
Michael Kainatsky :Right. What a great idea. I love it. It's government programs. You have to have government programs that are smart and logical. And yes, paternity leave should be equal. Now, when I say equal, I'm not saying a mother needs to recover physically and the father doesn't. So when I say equal, I mean you know a mom gets her automatic. That's a six, I get it. I don't think a father needs six months, but they need to have equal consideration, Like you do need to get it.
Dr Ariel King:It shouldn't be like yeah, right Take.
Michael Kainatsky :And you know what else. It should be forced. It shouldn't be one of those things where they're like you get like, look, you don't want to take three months, that's fine, you're going to take a month, take the first month you have to. It's a, it's a requirement, no different than what we did when we tell people like, hey, you know what, you having a kid, you got to go take it, just like vacations they make them take that vacation Right, make it, and then also it helps them to do it.
Dr Ariel King:I want to thank you for our time. I didn't know we'd have such a fantastic conversation, so thank you so much. I've learned so much from you. And thank you for our audience for being with us. The time goes by so quickly and remember, if I'm not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, am I? If not now, then when? That's by hillel the philosopher, philosopher, and I say if not me, then who? Thank you so much for being with us?